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Mike Howell (00:08):
The Dirt, with me, Mike Howell, an eKonomics podcast where I present the down and dirty agronomic science to help grow crops and bottom lines. Inspired by eKonomics.com, farming’s go-to informational resource, I’m here to break down the latest crop nutrition research, use and issues, helping farmers make better business decisions through actionable insights. Let’s dig in.
(00:40):
Listeners, welcome back to The Dirt. Glad you’re tuning in this week, and I am excited to be here today. I think we’ve got a really exciting guest here and when he starts talking here in a few minutes, I think many of you are going to tune your ears in really close and say, “I’ve heard that guy before.” Brett Gardner is our guest today. Brett, welcome to The Dirt.
Brett Gardner (00:57):
Hey, Mike. Thanks so much for having me. Like you, I’m excited to be here, but I think I’m more captivated and mesmerized by your great voice than they’re going to be like, “My, my man, it’s awesome.” Thanks for having me.
Mike Howell (01:09):
It is absolutely nothing for me to call my dad on the telephone and sit there long enough and I’m going to hear your voice coming through the other end of that telephone. He is an avid rodeo fan and he is watching a rodeo just about 24 hours a day. So for those of you that haven’t figured it out, we have Brett Gardner with us today. He is the 12-time Canadian Pro Rodeo Announcer of The Year. Brett, you’ve got quite a resume there. I’ll let you go ahead and fill us in a little bit more.
(01:34):
Before we get in with that, I was having lunch with my son a little while ago and he asked me what I was doing this afternoon? I told him I was interviewing you for the podcast. He said, “You’re interviewing the baseball player?” I said, “No, no, no, not the baseball player.” I told him a little bit about who you were and he said I had to ask you about Tim Hortons. Somehow he’s heard of Tim Hortons, the Canadian restaurant. So if you would, tell us a little bit about that. He wants to know if it’s worth coming to Canada to eat at the Tim Hortons?
Brett Gardner (01:59):
Oh, goodness sakes. That’s hilarious. So yeah, I guess first, no, I am not the center fielder for the New York Yankees. I’m just as athletic and as incredibly handsome, but I just decided not to go the baseball route. But no, man, that’s funny. I get that question lots. Tim Hortons, what a Canadian, I guess icon of a coffee shop. I’d probably compare it to maybe the Dunkin’ Donuts. They’re probably as popular as a Dunkin’ Donuts or something like that in the United States. But yeah, in Canada, there is a Tim Hortons on every corner in… There’ll be a drive- through that’s 20, 30, 40 cars deep. That’s probably one thing that Canadians say they have to have when they get back from the United States, is they got to go to Tim Hortons. So it’s a staple up here.
(02:40):
I’m probably maybe not the greatest people to ask that question, however, because I’ll go to Tim Hortons every once in a while, but it’s not my daily driver like it is for the average Canadian, but that’s something that everybody’s got to hit. So yeah, that’s a cool one right there. And Tim Horton, well, Tim Hortons is of course the name, but Tim Horton, he was a hockey player in the NHL in which he started the coffee shop. So it’s even more Canadian when you put that in the context.
Mike Howell (03:05):
There you go. I learned something new. I did not realize that. But if they have donuts, I’m sure my son’s going to be interested in heading up that way. His most favorite thing in the world to do is get something to eat. Brett, if you will, give us a little bit more of your background and tell us how you got into announcing rodeo?
Brett Gardner (03:20):
Yeah, another question I get often, and I love telling the story because I have to be honest, I got into announcing rodeos because I wasn’t good at anything else. That’s where really the story starts. But like most Canadian kids, I grew up loving and playing hockey, and then I rodeoed a little bit. I grew up on just a little mixed operation, a few miles from town. My parents both worked in town, but we had some horses and a little bit of land there and rode around and cowboyed around. It was a lot of fun. So that was my upbringing during my teenage years.
(03:49):
I’d moved away to play hockey for a year or two, but wasn’t really good at that either. So came home and during my last year of high school, I started competing in some high school rodeos because all my buddies did, and that’s the culture that I was from. And so I tried riding bareback horses and steer wrestling and team roping and roping cows, and it was a lot of fun. It was such a cool social atmosphere at the time to be a high school kid, to go to the high school rodeos. And I ended up getting hurt. I got backdoored off a bareback horse and dislocated in my shoulder and was out for a little bit.
(04:19):
And there was a gentleman who was an announcer in my hometown, and he announced a lot of the high school rodeos and amateur rodeos, and he said, “Hey, let’s be honest, you’re not that good at this sport, but you never shut up, so why don’t you give me a hand and help me announce some of these?” So he actually had me announce the goat tie-in and events like that at the high school rodeos, and I was back competing and things like that. So that was really my first step into the announcing world, but it was never ever my plan to be an announcer.
(04:47):
So I wrapped up that little high school career and off to university I went. And I did a degree in kinesiology and then an N degree because I wanted to be a stool teacher. But my first year at university I got a phone call and they said, “Hey, we need an announcer for a bull riding event, and you’re the guy.” And it was the next day I said, “Geez, no, no, I’m not going to be an announcer. I’m not an announcer.” I said, “You look in the big book of cool and rodeo announcer at 19 years old at that time, it’s near the bottom of the page. No, I’m not doing it.” And I remember he said, “Hey, and we’ll pay you something like $300 or $400.” So I’m like, “Oh, okay, I’m in.”
Mike Howell (05:22):
That changes things big time.
Brett Gardner (05:24):
You bet, right? I made it. I was more than I ever made right in bareback horses because I was absolutely no good at it. So I went and announced this bull riding event, and when I was done, the gentleman that hired me said, “Hey, we got 10 or 12 of these next year, we want you to do them all.” So I was forced to a decision. And in my industry, it often doesn’t happen like that. You get one or two a year, you try and get some experience, you got to chase it down a little bit. So I was really given this nice set of rodeos, 10 or 12 of them, and some bull rides. And so on I went and I guess I thought, “Well, let’s give this thing a whirl.” And I guess so they say that the rest is history, but that’s where it started for me.
(05:59):
So I started quite young, 20, 21. And in Canada, I was fortunate enough in 2006 alongside Dave Polson to work my very first pro rodeo in Medicine Hat and got to gain some pro rodeos there on. And in my mid to late 20s, I was fortunate enough to go to the Canadian Finals Rodeo and get that job and then win my first of 12 consecutive Announcer of The Year titles. And along the way, have been fortunate to do the CFO for now 10 or 11 years and be at the Calgary Stampede for the past 10 years. And up here we have TSN, which is more National Sports Network, and so I get to be the only host for that for the PBR Canada Cup series.
(06:35):
So it’s been a wonderful career and one that I’m still not sure that I’ve admitted that I’m actually doing because I wasn’t willing to admit it at 19. And I don’t know now here that I’m 40 something if I’m willing to. But heck, it’s been pretty darn awesome. It’s been one heck of a ride for sure, Mike.
Mike Howell (06:50):
Well, I know everybody out there loves to listen to you announce those rodeos. I never did rodeo. I’m not the right size and shape to be a rodeo cowboy. My rodeo is limited to jumping off the back of my dad’s truck on top of a steer a few times. That was the way he had us catch the steers. We didn’t have a rope. Very seldom did we use a horse. So he would take off through the pasture, and we got a little experience that way. I decided real quick, that wasn’t a way for me to go.
(07:14):
Brett, I’m living in Poplarville, Mississippi now, and for those that don’t know, that’s just about an hour north of New Orleans, but we have quite a resume of rodeo cowboys that come from this area. We have people like Frank and Chase Graves, Herbert Theriot, Marcus Theriot, and I’m sure you’ve seen some of them along the trail as well.
Brett Gardner (07:31):
Yeah, well, two tremendous families there and generations of… You talk about the Graves family and the Theriots as well. There’s world champions in those bloodlines, and it’s been pretty amazing. First thing, when you mentioned Herbert Theriot, I remember reading this story in the ProRodeo Sports News, and they used to say… And whether it be true or not, you might be able to add to it, but I remember they said, “This guy would’ve won the world so many times, as many times as he wanted to, but he just liked being at home.” I remember reading this storyline, and maybe there’s truth to it, maybe there’s not. But that was the first thing that I recalled about him. And I remember watching him at the NFR and he was a tick before my rodeo announcing days, but Marcus right now is tearing it up and is such a time to good hand.
(08:11):
So it’s been cool to be able to say his name through my travels, but also to watch him at the NFR and the timed event championships and all of that as he stakes his claim in pro rodeo. So yeah, pretty cool stuff. You’re in a neat part of the world.
Mike Howell (08:23):
Yeah, we really enjoy it down here. Bring the trends from the field to your field. eKonomics features the latest crop nutrition research, tips and tools to help keep your soil and bottom lines as healthy as possible. See it all at nutrien-eKonomics.com.
(08:41):
Brett, I’ve got seven kids and they’re ranging from freshmen in college to just going into high school, and they’re all looking at what they want to do when they grow up. And I keep telling them, “You’ve got to be motivated, no matter what you do. Get something that you enjoy doing. Be motivated, and it’s not going to be a job. It’s going to be fun getting up and going to work every day.” What motivates you to keep announcing rodeos?
Brett Gardner (09:01):
Wow, that’s a beautiful question and I appreciate you asking it, and I better preface this whole thing and acknowledge my bias because of the other work that I come from. But I feel that sometimes, maybe I’m a bit of a minority here, but my announcing career started really early. And so I’ve been 20 plus years in the game and fortunate enough to go to some of the best events in the world. Right now, what motivates me, I always say, you need to understand, I just love people and I love human potential, and I love helping people. And I feel that I get to do that through some of my skill sets with a microphone in hand. So what motivates me to continue to be a rodeo announcer, but more importantly, to get better and to do the best job I can, it’s to give the people the best experience.
(09:42):
I love when people leave a rodeo and two and a half hours later as a family, it’s still such a family sport, and be like, “Man, we really enjoyed that.” And I got to be part of the team that painted the picture and told the story and celebrated the industry and the agricultural world in which I love so much. But to tell the stories about the athletes and to tell the generational stories of Marcus and Herbert Theriot and all that that entails. So that’s really what motivates me. How can I do a great job of telling these stories and treating these athletes like the champions that they are while the people in the grandstand really enjoying the time that they have? Everything in this world, it seems to be going up in price. It’s expensive to go out to get the family together, to go out and to be a part of an event like this one.
(10:26):
So I just take it on as my task to do as good a job as I can and be as good as I can be for the people in the grandstand and the people that nod their head and make those rides and runs because they’ve earned it, they deserve it. And so that’s just a way that I feel that I can help. And I always say, my goal simply is just to try and make the world a better place. I just get to do it with a microphone in my hand and tell some really cool stories about a sport I love.
Mike Howell (10:48):
This sounds great. Brett, I know you’ve been doing this for over 20 years and no telling how many rodeos you’ve announced over that time, but I know you’ve seen some pretty remarkable events. What sticks out in your mind as one of the most memorable events that you’ve been able to call?
Brett Gardner (11:02):
Oh, gosh. I know I’m going to leave some out. Maybe I’ll go through a few, but the first one that comes to mind is the Calgary Stampede. It’s such an iconic event, and I think too, of all the western sports events in the world, if you’re to ask anybody from around the world, what’s the one they know? It’s the Calgary Stampede. I think that’s the first one that comes to mind. It’s a pretty special place. For me, my grandparents, they had homesteaded in Manitoba, but they ended up moving to Calgary, and I remember going with my grandparents to Calgary Stampede. And so there’s some special nostalgia there and some great memories of my grandparents at Calgary. And now I get to walk on that stage and tell this story of this incredible event that’s over 100 years old. So Calgary certainly comes to mind for me, but there’s some really cool stuff.
(11:46):
When we look at what’s really cool now, especially from a Canadian standpoint, the set of bronc riders that we have in Canada is arguably as good as it ever has been. And that’s no offense to the generations we’ve had because man, has Canada produced some phenomenal talents right from the beginning of professional sports and western sports. But a couple of years ago at the CFR, there was a night at the CFR where the bronc riding was unbelievable. And Rod Hay, who’s a true Canadian legend, eight Canadian titles, 20 trips to the NFR, he had said to me, “That’s the best round of bronc riding I’ve ever seen in Canadian history.” So I feel comfortable saying that because it came from the guy that was a part of every major record in the bronc riding.
(12:28):
But with that, I tell that story because right now, when we look at events like Rod’s event, the Wildwood Bronc Bustin’, the last couple of years in Pollockview, Alberta, which is a hall in one house, they put together arguably the greatest one day bronc match on the face of the planet. The hard grass bronc match has been absolutely sensational. It’s just the coolest thing. They broke the world record a couple of years ago. It’s just been wild there. So those are a couple of events that come to mind. Another regular season rodeo like Armstrong, Armstrong, the IP and Stampede there, and Armstrong, British Columbia is such a cool event. The crowd’s amazing. Starts a little later at…
PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:13:04]
Brett Gardner (13:03):
Columbia is such a cool event. The crowd’s amazing, starts a little later at night, so it’s a pretty phenomenal event as well. I mean, for me, the list could go on. I mean, I love going to Wainwright and to Lee Park and all these great events. Of course, then the cherry on top to be a part of the CFR, to be a part of history and names going in the record books. It’s pretty cool. I love them all, Mike, but they’re certainly come to mind, as you can tell.
Mike Howell (13:22):
Oh yeah. I would love to be able to tag along with you and hit some of those rodeos. I really enjoy watching. Brett, we could talk about rodeo all day, but that’s not why I asked you to be on the show today. I understand that you have quite a background in psychology. You have a Master’s degree of counseling psychology and working on a PhD in sports and performance psychology, and we’ve been doing a series talking about mental health and specifically, mental health in farmers. I wanted you to share a little bit of your insights and talk us a little bit through this mental health situation and what you see in mental health.
Brett Gardner (13:54):
Sure. Yeah, I appreciate the question, Mike. I think I’m dressed more as the mental health professional today, and I’m hanging out in one of my clinics. I think, just to give you a little context too, of where it came from. When I started rodeoing and man, like I said, greatest job in the world and all the things that are wonderful about it, but 2015, 16, 17, for me, it just got to a place where I was kind of burnt out and just wasn’t as happy as I thought I needed to be. I wasn’t maybe the greatest father and husband, and I knew there was more in me and I just was tired all the time and kind of beat down, and my own mental health was not where it needed to be. Throughout those years, I kind of reached out and asked for some help because I thought, “Geez, I just quickly learned I couldn’t do it alone.”
(14:31):
When I reached out and got some help and started on my own path and journey, the one thing that I learned is that I just wasn’t alone in this. There were a lot of people and a lot of men in particular in the ag industry, in the western sports world, that very much shared my story. I did not feel like the minority when I reached out and said, “Man, I don’t know what’s going on, but I got this 10,000 pound weight on my chest and I can just never catch my breath here. I don’t know what’s going on,” and I didn’t. Right? As a male, and as I think of masculine male and a big guy, it’s like, well, we’re not supposed to talk about this stuff. We grow up in an industry where it’s all about being tough. It’s all about being gritty.
(15:08):
That’s what it is. That’s the definition of the identity of so much what we do in this industry. It’s not even comprehensible to say, “What I got to think about my feelings or how I’m feeling,” but it just got to a point where my journey, it’s like I needed to. When I reached out, and like I said, I saw some wonderful people who I just have a world of admiration for, and they were just hurting like me. They just didn’t know how to say it like I didn’t know. That’s where it kind of changed my trajectory in life. I said, “You know what? I think my job’s to help these people, I want to be the person that I needed when I was struggling.” That kind of changed my path, like you mentioned. When I finished my Master’s work, and I work as a clinical counselor and in the psychology world, so I work clinically in this setting and do a lot of public speaking keynote stuff with mental health in the ag industry because the more I learned about it when I said I wasn’t alone, the more I learned that middle-aged Caucasian males in the ag industry mean the rates of anxiety, the rates of depression, the rates of suicide are all statistically higher than the general population.
(16:13):
All of these incredible people who I think are so phenomenal and stoic and remind me of Clint Eastwood and John Wayne yet, man, we just are hurting inside. Got to a place in my life, I just wasn’t okay with that. I needed a little nudge and I needed a little bit of help. Man, and there’s so many good people that I get to walk alongside right now that have very similar journeys to me and all walks of life, all levels of bank accounts. I don’t care if you’re calving 50 cows or 500 or you’re farming a thousand acres or 10,000, right? Lots of that stuff, that mental health piece weaves its way in. That’s the transition for me and where it went to. I always say I want people to win, but what’s important now? Well, what’s important now is acknowledging that we’ve never had as rates as high as we have had or we’re currently experiencing when it comes to mental health concerns in just about every walk of life. That’s not okay. We have to find a way. We have to figure out a way to support one another, open up some of these conversations and try and kick down some of those walls that are barriers to whether it be help or conversation or whatever it is for that individual.
Mike Howell (17:19):
Hey guys, Mike here, and I want to personally thank you for listening to today’s episode. If you like the show and want to continue hearing it, please like, subscribe, share, and rate it. The future of the dirt depends on your support. We’ve got plenty of big things coming up this season, so as always, stay tuned.
(17:41):
Brett, you said that you’re seeing rates higher in farmers than in the general population, and we’ve had other guests own that have said the same thing. My question to that is why do we see these higher rates in the farming community? Is there something that triggers that?
Brett Gardner (17:54):
I think just to acknowledge the idea of, again, that culture piece, and I always say culture in context matters. Understanding, if I’m working with someone that’s in that ag industry or a farmer, it’s like where do they come from? Well, the farming world attracts a certain type of individual, and they’re often the hardworking, stoic type person, but the farming industry also, is generational within families. The hours are unpredictable. The level of uncertainty in the ag world is absolutely unpredictable. There’s so many things that are out of our control. I think, and this is not to be offensive at anyone. You think of even financially, maybe somebody’s really concerned about their $1,500 payment on their apartment and their $700 payment on their vehicle. Well, a farmer might be concerned about a $250,000 quarterly payment on a new combine and then hoping that this two and a half million dollars debt that they inherited, but we’re sitting on 8,000 acres.
(18:50):
There’s a tremendous amount of stress. There’s more unpredictability, there’s more stress, and then what’s the job? The job’s isolating. Mike, I never knew how many phone calls I’d get from the combine when I jumped in this line of work. Now, I’ve got 10 hours behind this wheel. This crop is not what I was hoping for. I’ve got lots of time to sit and spin in my head and think about all the things. I sure hope this comes together. It’s really hard. Those things stacked together for me really kind of lead, because again, if we were to look at and do what we would call a needs assessment, and if I’m sitting down talking with somebody, it’s like, okay, what are things that can affect our mental health? Stress, anxiety, sleep, nutrition, all of this stuff. Man, we’re ticking a lot of those boxes.
(19:38):
We already know that we’re in a context that’s more susceptible to mental health concerns. Now, probably if you’re to listen to that last three minutes, it’s pretty negative when it comes to our industry, but I love this industry and I love this lifestyle, like so many. I say that and just acknowledging, here’s what we got. Here’s what we know. So what’s going to be our response? We know these things. It’s a little tougher to live this life, but then we add the idea that personality traits within that farming community and tough, and we can persevere and we can fix, and I can find a way and figure a way I can do this, but I’m not likely to reach out for help when it comes to that mental health piece. Hey, it maybe looks like I’m weak, or it looks like I’m struggling. What are they going to think about me?
(20:21):
We got to hang on to that traditionally, who we are personality-wise, and then over here coupled with the stressors that the ag industry faces. I don’t want it to sound so pessimistic, but there’s a little bit of times kind of that perfect storm. We tick a lot of those boxes. That’s why I think we see those increased rates of a lot when it comes to those mental health concerns. We know the agricultural industry is predominantly driven by men, and we already know that men are less likely to reach out for help anyway. Sometimes there’s some strikes against guys like me and you in this industry, but I say that with tremendous hope because of over the last few years that the work that people are doing and continuing to do and starting to do. I think we’re certainly headed in the right direction. I’m excited for that, as negative as it sounds at time, but it is real and it is a fact. How are we able to acknowledge those things and make sure that we picked the right tool out of the toolbox to help each other moving forward?
Mike Howell (21:18):
Brett, I think you hit on something important there. You said, we have to acknowledge this. If somebody doesn’t acknowledge that something’s going on and realize that they need some help, it’s really hard to get that help. Once they acknowledge, “Hey, something’s not quite right here. I don’t know what’s going on, but I know something needs to change.” What does somebody need to do? Who do they turn to? What can they do to get some help?
Brett Gardner (21:37):
Yeah, great question. I think that acknowledgement, acknowledge and acceptance, it’s a pathway to freedom. It’s like, oh, things aren’t great, and sometimes we think it’s like, oh, oh no, it has to be so bad. I think about it lots too in the coaching space, it’s like, no, things are good, but they could be better. Well, that’s okay too. I think farmers and ranchers, they prepare. I mean, we prepare for seeding, we prepare for calving, we make sure machinery’s ready and pens are built and the cabin barn’s ready, but have we prepared mentally for those seasons? I think that’s really important to acknowledge too. It’s like, okay, the check engine light’s on and the tractor, we’re going to go do something to fix it most times. If that check engine light comes on in me and I feel like I’m away from baseline or I’m grumpy for a little longer than I should be emotionally, there’s some outbursts or I’m not feeling as happy, those are those check engine lights.
(22:28):
Those are those signs. Once we’ve acknowledged them, I think, Mike, the question is what’s our plan? Do we have a plan for that? I think there’s that piece of professional help and clinical help, which I’m a strong proponent of because it’s what I do and I’m not rodeoing and my work as a clinician in that mental health space. I think trying to reach out for help and finding someone that we can connect with. I know that I’m an Alberta and there’s a AgNo is a really cool program that’s supported provincially, and they’re doing great work with hooking people up in the ag industry with appropriate clinicians and support that way. I think some other ways too is when we’re reaching out or asking for help, it doesn’t always have to be a therapist. I think sometimes we get caught in that, “Oh, maybe you need some help, Brett.”
(23:08):
“Oh, well, I got to go see a psychologist and they’re going to tell me what’s wrong with me, and I got to lay down on the couch and they’re going to tell me that, ‘Hey, when I was two years old,’” that’s not always the story. How can I be connected to my neighbor? Is that picking up the phone call and me saying, “Hey, Mike, man, I’m just having a crappy day. How are you?” “Hey, I’m doing okay. What’s wrong? Why are you having a crappy day?” Right? Even starting to open up some of those conversations, there’s so much power sometimes in just letting things breathe. Like I said, when I started to reach out, it was just amazing how many people were singing my same song. I didn’t feel alone. I didn’t feel ashamed, I didn’t feel anything. I look at it now, I’m really happy that I did because I’m way better today than I was five years ago.
(23:51):
Better father, better husband, better friend, better clinician. I’m clear. I’m all those things. Of course, I’m happy that I did the work, but back to that idea of reaching out to somebody or what tools do we have that we know make us feel better? Is there something I can build into my day? I know that sometimes that expression of self-care gets thrown around, but it’s like, what can I do to take care of myself? Geez, is that just 15 minutes of nothing? I’m just going to go sit and look and dream and think or whatever that is. Does that help me? Listening to a certain type of music, or do I need to try and sleep better when I can? What parts of the puzzle can I move around?
(24:31):
I think there’s nothing wrong, especially in men’s mental health because we’re so solution-focused. We’re always looking for an answer. Sometimes there’s not an answer, and that’s okay. I think it’s the same thing. If the header on your combine’s not working right, you’re going to stop, fix, adjust. Hey, if what I’m doing every day, I’m not feeling right, why can’t we stop, fix, adjust? Let’s try this. I’m going to try this for this quarter. Didn’t fit. Okay, try something else. That’s okay, but we got to accept and acknowledge to make that change.
Mike Howell (25:02):
That was going to be my next question, Brett. What may work for one person may not be the exact same thing that works for another person. How do you figure out what does work for you?
Brett Gardner (25:11):
Oh, what a cool question, Mike. I think in a lot of the work I do, and we’ve talked about, my doctor works in sports and performance psychology, and I love working with teams and in systems, and I say one of the best things that we can do is learn that the power of our journey comes from the personalization of our process. What does that personalization look like for you? I appreciate you saying that. I go back, my first answer was like the guess and check. It’s like, “Okay, I’m going to go do this and I’m going to commit to this for a while, and hey, it worked or it didn’t work, or it helped a little bit. Maybe I need more of it. Maybe I need less of it,” but I think we have to have and give an honest effort, but we also have to have honest, authentic reflection. Especially men sometimes get forced into the therapy world, and we see it lots. I get lots of wives reach out to me, “Hey, can you see my husband?” It’s like, well, he’s got to want to do it too. That’s one of the things, if we can …
PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:26:04]
Brett Gardner (26:03):
He’s got to want to do it too. That’s one of the things, if we completely push back against it, it’s like, our mind’s like a parachute, if it’s not open, it’s not going to work. So there has to come a time where we got to soften, and loosen to that, and think, you know what, yeah, maybe I need to make a change.
(26:15):
Maybe it’s I need to sleep more, I need to eat better, I need to… Okay. Or is it, my wife and I love, there’s a real cool brewery. And pardon me for those that don’t drink, but we go to a brewery here, and sometimes we just go for 45 minutes or an hour, probably every six, seven weeks. And it’s just really intentional.
(26:31):
And we’ve kind of said, “Here’s what it’s going to do for us. We’re intentional in that, and we just take that time to be in each other’s company, and talk about whatever, and enjoy a local pint.” And I always feel that little bit better going home. I always think, it’s a shovel full at a time.
(26:47):
Sometimes we get caught looking for this huge big change. For me, it took me 47 years to get here. I know that it’s going to take time to make those little changes. I’m just, “Hey, can I get 1% here? Can I get 3% closer to baseline here?” I get a lot of calls, Mike, too, even from the Ag world, or from the first responders community, which I also worked with, and work with some wonderful people in the military. And we always talk about getting back to baseline. And they’ll say, “Hey, I got something coming up. I need 10%,” or “I need 20%.”
(27:15):
We need to bring them back to baseline a little bit. And it’s the same thing, we’re thinking, “Hey, harvest is coming up. I’m trying to get the people that I get to work with just in the best frame of mind and mindset, and know that they have access to the tools, because harvest is going to be hard,” or “Calving season is going to be hard.” So have we taken care of and been proactive with our mental health, so that when it comes, we’re ready to roll?
Mike Howell (27:36):
Well, Brett, you also mentioned a few minutes ago about the check engine light, and made reference to that. If I’m driving down the road and my check engine light comes on, I may or may not do something about it. It depends on what the situation is. And if I’ve had that light check several times, and I know it’s nothing to it, that keeps going off and coming back on, I don’t pay it any attention.
(27:55):
If my wife gets in the truck with me, and I hope she doesn’t listen today, but if my wife gets in the truck with me, she’s going to nag me until I do something about that light. She’ll pick up on things a lot quicker than I will sometimes. And where I’m going with this is, you said that men are less likely to seek help or admit that they need help. What if a family member starts picking up on some of these issues? What can they do to help with the situation?
Brett Gardner (28:18):
Great question, Mike. It’s funny, that story is similar to mine. Seven, eight years ago, my wife said to me, she’s like, “Brett, maybe you should go see somebody.” And this was the height of my announcing career, and I said, “Are you kidding me?” And I was quite ignorant. I’m like, ” Do you know who I am?” It’s silly. I regret it so much now, but I can relate to it, because she’s like, “Maybe you’d like to go talk to somebody.” And I was so dead set against it.
(28:39):
And now it’s what I do. So I’m like, “Sorry, dear.” But it is so common. When we’re in it, it’s so hard to see it. Oh, I didn’t know it was that bad. We just get so lost in it that it’s hard to see it. So with that being said, I think people from the outside looking in, I hope that if people are listening to this, and you do have family members or people you care about, that are saying, “Hey, you okay?” I hope we can take that serious. And maybe we’re not okay. Or maybe, “Hey, why do you think I’m not okay?”
(29:06):
Because then it’s about that exploration, and it’s about being that detective. Why do you think I’m not okay? And trying to do that without judgment, because from the outside looking in, people do see those changes. They maybe do see us over time, where we’re with it every day, so we just don’t see it.
(29:23):
So I hope you can take those conversations to heart, I should say, from those people that acknowledge that. And then I know the reach out piece, that’s one that’s, do I say it’s tough to try and get help for other people? Because again, you got to want it. It’s like anything, if I don’t want the help and support, I’m not going to get it. I have to be at a place. So how can we support those people? It’s like trying to hold onto them as long as we can.
(29:46):
Or is it even reaching out to one of their friends? “Hey, so Mike, could you call Brett today? I don’t know, I’m just a little worried about him.” Is there a move you can play there, without getting in trouble? Or is it just kind of checking in on a more regular basis, and getting creative with that?
(30:02):
And I have lots of people that reach out and say, “Hey, Brett, I got a buddy that, I don’t know, he’s just a little off. What do you think?” And I’ll do that in consultation, because we only ever seek one side or one vantage point of things. So there’s certainly some options there. But just trying to have those conversations, and be supportive as we can. And I think sometimes getting creative, and trying to support those people, and reaching out to their networks, who were they connected to, is important.
Mike Howell (30:27):
Brett, I have sure learned a lot from doing this series this summer. One of the first things I learned doing this, is that there is a 911 number, we can call. It’s 988 here in the United States. If anybody has any issues and needs help, they can call that 988 number. And I know you’re in Canada, do you have a similar number in Canada that somebody could call if they’re needing help?
Brett Gardner (30:48):
Yeah, there’s, 911 is of course our response line. And if any emergencies, whether it be physical, mental, that’s kind of the one to call. But yeah, there’s certainly a plethora of resources, if you would. One site that I often reference is the Canadian Mental Health Association, the CMHA. And just why I go there, it does a great job of listing 11 or 12 different resources for people that they can call or reach out to, when it comes from suicide lines and other resources that people can have access to. One that I’ve really leaned into a lot, when it comes to now from the counseling and therapeutic side, is that Agno Program. And that’s agno.ca. And they’re working really hard from a Canadian standpoint.
(31:28):
And I’ve come to learn that most provinces in Canada, they have their own version of. And what they’ve started to do is put together communities of therapists, and counselors, and coaches that are well versed in the Ag industry.
(31:40):
And a lot of those clinicians come from the Ag industry, and the government’s also subsidized that therapy. So the Agno Program, you have four free therapy sessions, because there is a financial cost to that, if we don’t have that insurance or those benefit programs. So they’ve done a great job trying to remove barriers for those in the Ag industry. And of course, there’s the private sector as well. But yeah, they’re continuing to do great stuff, do more Ag campaign. And is also one in Alberta. So they’re certainly out there.
(32:09):
And if you’re listening to this right now, it’s something, oh, maybe I should, I strongly encourage you to do so. Please let this be permission to call one of those lines. And it may not work the first time, but I think you owe it to yourself to make those calls, to find someone that you can maybe connect with. And if it’s a therapist, great. If not, maybe it’s a rekindling friendship with a long-lost friend, and a place to put some of those heavy things that we wear in the Ag industry, because stress is real, burnout’s real, and it’s got to go somewhere.
(32:37):
And I firmly believe that we can all make adjustments, and seek help, and find ways to live our very best lives, and be happy and healthy.
Mike Howell (32:45):
Brett, we sure appreciate you taking a few minutes to visit with us today on this important topic. Before I let you go, is there any closing comments you want to make? Anything you want to leave our listeners with today?
Brett Gardner (32:55):
Mike, let me say thank you to you and your team. The opportunity to have these conversations, I think are so powerful, as we just continue to open up this conversation. And the more we talk about it, the more normal it becomes, and the easier it is to talk about.
(33:08):
But I think just to reiterate the previous comment, for anybody that’s thinking they might need some help out there, or would benefit from it, please, I just encourage you to reach out. And whether it be to me, or another professional, we’ll certainly get you in the right hands, in the right direction.
(33:22):
And I think in my story, as tough as it was for me to come out the first time and say that I wasn’t okay, I wish everybody knew how good the journey can be, and how wonderful things can be sometimes with a little bit of support and like-minded people in our corner. So I just wish everybody the absolute best out there and I’m cheering for everybody.
Mike Howell (33:41):
Brett, thanks again for joining us. Listeners, we hope you’ve enjoyed this series on mental health. And I want to remind anyone, if you think you may have a problem, there’s a lot of people out there that are willing to help. Check out some of these resources that we’ve mentioned over the past few episodes. And as always, thanks for listening to The Dirt, and stay tuned for segment two. Listeners, I hope you enjoyed the first segment of today’s show. If you did, please take a minute and give us a rating on your favorite podcast channel or app, and give us some feedback as well. We want to hear from you to help make the show even better. And don’t keep it to yourself. Please share these episodes with co-workers, family, friends, anyone you think may benefit from the information we’re sharing here.
(34:22):
Don’t forget to visit our website, nutrien-eKonomics.com, to help find the latest crop nutrition news and research information, as well as market updates, a growing degree day calculator, a nutrient use calculator, a rainfall tracker, and much, much more. It’s all at nutrien-eKonomics.com.
(34:45):
Most episodes of The Dirt are now available for CCA credits. Visit our website and click on the agronomics tab to find these CCA credit opportunities. And if you a question, you can ask one of our agronomy team members. Simply ask your question and one of us will get back with you. Thanks for listening. Now, segment two of The Dirt.
(35:08):
Well listeners, welcome back to segment two. Today we are traveling to the great state of Texas. Now Texas is an awful big state, and we’ve got research farms scattered all over The States. And to help us talk a little bit about one of the research farms in the State of Texas, we’ve got Dr. Todd Ballman.
(35:24):
Todd, welcome to The Dirt. If you would, introduce yourselves to our listeners, and tell them a little bit about what you’re doing now.
Todd Baughman (35:30):
Todd Ballman, Center Director here for Texas A&M AgriLife Research, our center at Lubbock. Originally from Oklahoma, actually got my PhD at Mississippi State University, with David Shaw, when I was there. And then worked for Texas A&M for 15 years, as an Extension Agronomist and State Peanut Specialist.
(35:51):
Went back to Oklahoma where I was working as a weed science, which is my training. And then had the opportunity to come back to Texas A&M. Been here since April 1, as the Center Director here at Lubbock. So kind of exciting times and changes for myself.
Mike Howell (36:05):
Todd, if I knew you were at Mississippi State, I had forgotten that, but Dr. Shaw was on my research committee at one time. And great man, glad to see he’s still around and doing a lot of good things. But I guess that’s where we first met, when you were at Texas A&M as the Peanut Specialist, and I was doing a similar role in Mississippi. So that’s been quite a few years ago now.
Todd Baughman (36:24):
Yeah, a year or two ago, for sure.
Mike Howell (36:26):
Todd, we wanted to have you on today, and talk a little bit about one of your research farms. I know you’ve just started in this position, but you’ve been around the Texas A&M system for a long time, and I’m sure you’re well versed on the research farms there.
(36:38):
But before we get into that, there is a little bit of confusion out there among some people that don’t really know the system, and think that there may be two land-grant universities in Texas. There is one in Lubbock that is not a Land-grant university, and we’re not downing them in any way. They do some great agriculture research. But kind of set the stage there, how the two universities are separate, and work together sometimes, and things like that.
Todd Baughman (37:01):
Okay. So just to familiarize your listeners, we have 13 research stations that are located across the state, and probably unique to most of the universities, those stations all are housed with faculty. So we have university professors, research and extension, and those are located based on the needs of that region or that area for the State of Texas.
(37:26):
So that is kind of unique. Lubbock is one of those, is the largest. We have 23 faculty members that are either research extension or a dual-role. And then probably the most unique thing about this center is, we actually have faculty that have split appointments with Texas A&M and Texas Tech University.
(37:47):
And as you mentioned, Texas A&M is the Land-Grant University for the State of Texas. Texas Tech is an agriculture university, but they are not in fact a Land-Grant University. So a little bit different there, even though as you mentioned, have some excellent scientists there.
(38:03):
And we’re fortunate enough, again, to have that working relationship with them, not only on shared research or shared outreach program, but actually faculty members that are actually employed by both Texas A&M and by Texas Tech. So that’s definitely something that’s unique. Obviously, offers some challenges, when you’re working with two different systems, two different sets of paperwork, that sort of thing.
(38:29):
But we’re fortunate that we have some really great faculty members that are bought into that. And what it does for our center faculty that’s involved in that is, it allows them to interact with students, to fulfill that teaching role that is part of the Land-Grant mission, and then obviously, gives them some excellent access to a lot of those students at an earlier age, where they’re interacting with them in the classroom. So it works out really well, I think, for both systems, and for our faculty members that have that opportunity to be in that joint appointment with both systems.
PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [00:39:04]
Todd Baughman (39:03):
… opportunity to be in that joint appointment with both systems.
Mike Howell (39:04):
Todd, well let’s get in and start talking about the research farm there in Lubbock. I’m assuming that’s the one you wanted to talk about today. Tell us a little bit about the research farm and a little about the history there.
Todd Baughman (39:14):
So I’m actually going to talk about one of our other farms, if you don’t mind.
Mike Howell (39:19):
That’s fine. That’s fine.
Todd Baughman (39:20):
We have four research locations that are under the Lubbock Center. We have the main facility here at Lubbock, we have the Halfway and Helms Farm, which is north of us, then we have the Pecos Farm that falls under our area that is south of us. And then the farm I’m going to talk today about, and there’s kind of a reason why that and I’ll explain that, is our AG-CARES facility at La Mesa, which is in the southern part of our Southern High Plains District here.
(39:47):
I also might mention, we also have a working relationship with what is referred to as the Barker Farm, and that’s a farm that Dole Barker has allowed both our extension and research faculty and staff to do research on, so we’re appreciative of that. And I think that probably was built a little on the AG-CARES philosophy.
(40:08):
So the AG-CARES facility started in 1990 as a joint relationship with La Mesa Cotton Growers, an organization in that La Mesa area. The cotton gins and then growers that are involved in that area, they came to A&M and were wanting to develop some research that could help with cotton-based cropping systems and obviously to optimize cotton profitability in the Southern High Plains.
(40:35):
So we went into a partnership with them. They leased a farm in that area, provided a lot of the initial equipment and a lot of the initial cost to operate it as far as seed costs, those typical production costs. So that’s been an ongoing relationship now, I guess, for 34 years. So I would say, again, kind of unique in the fact that it was a joint venture and they picked up a lot of those costs but allowed us to do production research in more of a larger, farm-type setting.
(41:10):
And then I’d say obviously being able to continue that for 30 plus years is I think a real honor to those guys for that commitment to trying to address the answers for themselves and their customers in that area. So that’s been ongoing, been a lot of neat research that has went into that, and it’s definitely kind of changed over those times as the needs and the agriculture in that area changed.
(41:37):
One of the examples you mentioned, I was a state peanut specialist and actually did some different peanut work, row spacing work, harvest timing work, on that farm many years ago when peanuts were a little bit of a larger part of the production in that Dawson County area. Unfortunately with declining water, there’s not as many peanuts being produced in that area, so we’ve revolved away from that not being a part of that rotation on the farm there. I think at one time there were some sorghum-based rotation in that. There’s been a lot of cover crop work. Obviously that’s an important part of our cropping systems here in West Texas. That’s been really, really important. Irrigation management timings, I think they did some of the termination timing work on irrigation at that farm when they were working on that. Now we’re in kind of a cotton-wheat fallow rotation on the farm there with the current water situation that we’re dealing with and with the thoughts that that’s probably going to be one of the areas that we’ll see more acres go to that.
(42:46):
And one of the things that we’re doing is when we pull that wheat crop off, we’re leaving that stubble for additional year, so that’s how we’re managing that as a cover crop. Obviously one of the issues or concerns that we have with cover crops in this area is the moisture that they potentially use for that following cotton crop, so that’s one of the things that we’re looking at now at AG-CARES. Can we bring an actual wheat crop into that, use it as part of an actual return, cash return crop, but then also use that stubble somewhat as a cover crop situation, so that’s a big part of the research that’s ongoing there.
(43:26):
The cotton breeding program, we have an active cotton breeding program here at Lubbock. They’ve been doing quite a bit of breeding work. Our plant pathologists have done work there working with nematodes. We’ve had some weed [inaudible 00:43:40] work there, and then our cropping systems agronomists and our soil nutrient management, soil conservation groups are both working there at the station and one of the things that’s come out of that work is that we’ve actually reduced the recommendation for nitrogen per bale in the Southern High Plains from some work that was done there. A lot of interesting work that’s gone on through the years and definitely, I think, has been a benefit not only to our center and to our scientists. It gives us another location, obviously, to work on, a little bit sandier soil than what we deal with, and you started dealing with some of the first water issues to some degree there with the declining aquifer, also. That’s kind of been ongoing and I think that’s been a really unique opportunity that our center has had and we’re obviously appreciative of the growers and the gins in that area for working with us.
Mike Howell (44:32):
Todd, that sounds like a great relationship that you have there with the growers in the community, and that’s what it’s all about. These land grant systems, they can do all the research and education they want to do, but if we’re not getting it back out to the growers, we’re still not accomplishing what we need to do. That works really well. And we had Dr. Brian Hopkins with BYU on the program a few weeks ago and he talked about a relationship, that they don’t have any research farms anymore, and he talked about a similar relationship they have with an individual farmer and we talked about how special that is and how good it is to be able to work with farmers in their own fields to get that done. It sounds like y’all are doing some of that stuff as well.
Todd Baughman (45:09):
Oh yeah, most definitely. When we go back to the 13 research centers, and that’s one of the things that A&M I think has done well is having these centers in the different areas. Of course, Texas being a large state, a little bit more difficult maybe than some of our other land grants in some of our smaller states, but being able to put those centers in those strategic areas and work on the problems that those areas and that are unique to those areas. And I think that’s something as center director, obviously, that I’ll strive for is to make sure that at least the crutch of what we’re doing goes back to addressing the issues of our producers and our industry in this area and make sure that we’re relevant to those needs.
Mike Howell (45:52):
Well, Todd, one last question I want to ask you, and I’m asking this of all of the people we have on talking about the research farms, we know agriculture is constantly changing. There’s a lot of technology coming online these days and there’s not any more land available out there. We keep losing more and more farm acres every year. What are the research stations going to have to do to adapt and keep up with the change in pace in agriculture? Where do you see the farm in the next 50 years?
Todd Baughman (46:18):
Well, I wish I had a crystal ball. Probably if I did, I’m not sure I’d be sharing that with you necessarily, Mike. I’d probably be making some money off that. I think back to, unfortunately to some degree, and I think some of the producers would agree with this and I know you’ve seen this. When I think back to when I started at Vernon, probably the average size farm was somewhere between 500 and 1,500 acres. And when I say that, that was a grower that that’s what he did. He didn’t have a job in town and farm 500 acres or 1,500 acres on the side. Depending on what he was doing, that’s what he did for a living.
(46:54):
Now, I don’t think I could find a grower that small that did it 100% that you didn’t have some other type of income. We’re probably getting closer to the 5,000 acre mark in a lot of cases. If that trend stays in play, we’re just going to see these farms get larger as we move forward. And so the ability to be able to make those decisions I think on that large of acres are going to be part of what we’re going to have to, I think, help those growers address.
(47:25):
The other thing, interestingly enough, and I never really thought about this through my career, it’s probably unfortunate that I didn’t, but visiting with the grower. As farm programs, conservation changes, things like climate smart, helping those producers determine which one of those are actually beneficial to them and which one of those either pay or worst-case scenario, break even type situation. I think some of those types of things we’re going to have to help those growers address.
(47:57):
And I would say when you start looking at those types of things, cropping systems, those types of management decisions, probably we’re the best set to be able to help those with those questions. Individual companies do a really, really good job on their specialty, but when we start blending these together and looking at how they affect farm programs and overall farming practices, I think that’s a part that we’re going to have to be there to address.
(48:23):
The other issue, obviously, in our area is going to be water. We’re going to have to continue to develop best management plans to manage the water resources we have and that goes both on dry land and irrigated. So making sure that we’re making every dollar we can out of every inch of water we have out here will continue to be a big issue for us.
Mike Howell (48:45):
Todd, one final thing, and it kind of came to me as you were giving that last response. I do a lot of work in Mississippi with the research station there, the Delta Research and Extension Center, and been around Stoneville all my life and actually worked for a chemical company in Stoneville when I first started. But I also realized that Lubbock is the home for a lot of these corporate people, as well. There’s several people that are based there in Lubbock. Talk a little bit about the relationship between private industry and a university and how that’s so important.
Todd Baughman (49:14):
Well, I think probably the simplest answer to that, Mike, is the fact that a lot of our technology, because of the cost of development, is going to come from private industry. There’s no way, unfortunately, that the university’s going to come out with a cotton variety with some type of genetic advantage to it. It’s just too costly to do that, or to develop a herbicide or an insecticide or a fungicide. That’s going to have to come through private industry.
(49:42):
Both in my career and I think in the land grant system, we’ve been fortunate enough to have a really good relationship with both those basic suppliers and the retailers who have become even more important as we move through my career and being able not only to test those for them in some different environments that they may not have the ability to look at, to put those through some challenges, and then be able to also be a voice from a recommendation standpoint. How best to use, whether it’s that variety or that product.
(50:12):
They’ve been supportive of our research. Obviously with the trending down in public support for research, those dollars have been really important for a lot of our programs to be able to do some of the things that they do and answer some of the questions. And I will say that’s one of the reasons I was interested in this position was there are some key manufacturers that have some major investments in this region, and the opportunity to work with those guys and to continue to build upon the relationships that are already here I think are going to be key because it’s going to take all of us to be able to answer these questions and make sure that we keep our producers in business going forward.
Mike Howell (50:52):
Todd, we really appreciate you taking a few minutes to visit with us this morning. Listeners, we thank you for tuning in and as always, if you have any questions or need more information about anything we’ve talked about here today, you can visit our website. That’s nutrien-eKonomics.com. Until next time, this has been Mike Howell with The Dirt.
PART 4 OF 4 ENDS [00:51:14]
